Winter Fresh Water and Waste Tank Usage

[Scottsdale]

This may be a little off topic but here goes. This will only be our second winter of camping and while we learned quite a bit from last year I am getting the impression that some of the more seasoned campers use more of their on board facilities than we did. I would like to know what others do in the winter months, from the point of view of using their toilet an kitchen sink during the really cold periods. We used a porta-toilet and dumped it at the end of the weekend and we just did our dishes then dumped it into a larger bucket which I carried to the outdoor toilets to dump each night. I was told that some people just put RV antifreeze down both black and grey tanks at the beginning of the weekend and then dump at the end. Does this really work and does the grey water not freeze over the course of a few nights. Just wondering. And Shum, how did you use the shower without freezing issues.

[shum]

One of the great things that really sold us on our KZ was the covered, insulated and heated underbelly. This has allowed us last season to use all our facilities without a real though to freezing but it does bring with it some other chores and even if you don't have this done from the factory there are ways around it.

Before we had the KZ we had a StarCraft 235SBS HTT. It did not have insulated, covered or heated in anyway tanks but we still used them anyway. You can buy thermostatically controlled heating pads which stick to the underside of the tanks and automatically keep the tanks to a predetermined temp.

http://www.ultraheat.com/ These ones are generally considered the best and can be had on eBay for a great deal. Since I'm pretty cheap I used 40 - 60 watt incandescent light bulbs strategically placed under all the tanks to keep them warm because remember you only need to keep them above freezing. Because my dump valves were also exposed I wrapped the pipes and valves in reflectix and placed a heater by them on the day that we be leaving or the day I needed to dump in order to make sure the fluid in them was liquid, I also dumped about a couple of litres of pink down the black and grey tanks before usage so that it would settle up against the dump valves and that worked pretty good as well.

Now because you have all this onboard waste you have to get rid of it and I found the best way was with my two totes and my Flojet Macerator aka Poop Canon.


This is the PC hooked up to the camper and the waste pumped through a sacrificed FW hose cause I forgot my black one, yes is is marked and will never be used for drinking water.


Here my son keep a very disinterested watch on the fluid levels as the waste is pumped into the totes for the journey to the Dump Station.

Now if may seem like a bit of work and it is but remember my wife loves having all the stuff working in the camper, loves not having to walk to the comfort station in -12 weather to have a shower or use the facilites so for me it's worth it!

This is just a surface walk through so if you need more detail let me know. As well Trailblazer did install the heating pads on his Sunline this year so he can give you more info on how that worked.

[Trailblazer]

As Shum said, I installed the ultraheat pad on my rig this year. Since I did not have an enclosed underbelly, this was a fairily easy install. Bascially just clean the tank of with Isipropyl Alcohol, peel off the paper off the sticky backing paper and press the heating pads on the tank. Now with GoinKZ's help I also used Gorrila tape to seal down all of the edges, but this was not really necessary just something I wanted to do.

The pads I purchased from ebay have both a 12v and 110v circuit. I have not connect the 12v circuit as I figured I would just run them off of 110V. Both pads have a 110v plug so you just need to plug them in. The pads only come on when the temperature drops below 7C and will automatically turn off at 18C. Now as shum said, the best place to buy these units is off of e-bay as they are about 1/3 of the price. The fellow who sells them generally has a Buy Now price but on occassion he will put some up with a bid price. If you do go this route, you need to check the Ultraheat site to determine what size heating pad you will need based on the size of your holding tanks.

Another item to consider is your fresh water tank. Is it loacated in a heated space or and unheated space. Mine is in a heated space so this is no issue for me. I believe shums FW tank is in an unheated so so he has come up with a method of drawing water directly fron Acquatianers. Depending on the location of your FW tank, you may also want to look at Shum's setup for this as well.

For my dump valves, my plan is to use some heat trace tape and wrap it around the pipes and then wrap both the heat trace tape and the pipes with closed cell foam insulation.

Like shum, I had also purchased a Macerator pump and was planning on off loading the black and gray tanks using the same method as shum, while the unit was stored on site.


I have not had the opportunity to try this system out yet, but hope to start using it either later this year or early next next. Another-newfie has also added an ultra heat pad to his rig so hopefully he will jump in here and talk about how he has done his setup and what he has done differently.

[GoinKZ]

who sells them generally has a Buy Now price but on occassion he will put some up with a bid price. If you do go this route, you need to check the Ultraheat site to determine what size heating pad you will need based on the size of your holding tanks.

I can't see where oversizing the UltraHeat pads would be any detriment here as long as they physically fit the tanks, right?

[Trailblazer]

I can't see where oversizing the UltraHeat pads would be any detriment here as long as they physically fit the tanks, right?

I agree, I don't think having a larger ultrapad would be an issue, the problem I believe is getting too small of an Ultraheat pad.

[another_newfie]

I am in a similiar situation to Trailblazer in that I do not have a heated/insulated underbelly. All of my tanks are exposed. This is our second year winter camping in our TT, but the first that I will be using the onboard systems. To that end I have decided to use the Black Water only. There are a few reasons for that, first is cost, second is the fact that the water lines for my shower run underneath my tub and are VERY difficult to get at to insulate. Third is that a friend gave me a tank heater.

So what I did was change some plumbing on my trailer to give me a straight run from my pump to the cold water tap on my galley sink and then on to my toilet. It was pretty simple once I mapped out the lines and consisted of installing 2 inline shutoff valves. When I put the trailer into cold weather mode last weekend I winterized with air, then pink, then flipped 2 valves. What our plan is to use the cold water tap in the galley sink for running water for cooking and washing dishes etc and the toilet. We have a massive sink so we already use wash tubs for dishes anyway, which we already dump into the toilet to save on the grey water so that remains the same. My tank heater is on the Black Tank and I can easily insulate the dump valves so there will be no issue there. My plan is to then use a tote to dump the contents.

I also took the time to insulate the entire run of PEX with pipe wrap and install furnace registers into 2 access panels to allow heat to flow into the areas where the lines are. Finally I will draw water from containers inside the trailer through a hose that will be attached to my winterizing bypass valve I had installed in the spring. I hope that makes sense. I have pictures taken of most of it, but I've yet to unload them.

[coal]

Shum how do you like that macerator, I am thinking of buying one as sometimes they do come in handy. Where and how much did you pay for yours, and does your work on 12 volt or 120 volt.

I see you put the totes in the back of your pickup, I assume just gravity unload into the dump station? My situation is a little different as I need the dump station to unload. I guess I could install another 65 gallon tank onto the bed of my truck for waste only, and they truck it to the local campground?? Put in the same macerator system you have, pump to the tank on the truck and then off to the dump station around the corner??

We just got back from Milton Heights this morning, about 1 hour to tear down, move the trailer about 2 miles to my yard and then re set back up. Not bad.

Having the macerator pump and trucking the waste all I would incur is the dump fee. Sorry to rob the topic here.

As for the op, ask questions and your going to have to determine how you want to use your rig for winter camping and set yourself up that way. I boondock winter camp all winter long, mine is a extreme situation and more info can be found on my blog at http://rvallseasons.blogspot.com/ Details the things I need to do to get through a cold Ontario winter. Lots of pics too.

Having a rig that is already setup for colder months of camping goes a long way, but I have done it with exposed tanks, single pane windows and less insulation value in the trailer that I had at the time. Getting out and doing it will quickly give you a idea of how well your rig will perform as all rigs are different from each other and each requires it's own modification work.

But luckily, you have a bunch of nuts here on the forum, myself included, that winter camp and think nothing of it.

[shum]

The Flojet operates off 12VDC just straight off the battery with a set of alligator clips but you could certainly make something a little more elegant if you want.

GoinKZ arranged a bulk purchase across the border last year so that he, Gman and myself made off like bandits on the purchase picking them up for just around $200 each Cdn as I recall. Hard to do better even with a sale price from Camping World. All things being equal there is no way I'd purchase it here as the stealer's want a king's ransom for them so delay until you have a trip South or know someone to pick it up for you.

Like it? Love it! This little gem will pump close to 10g's /minute through a decent size hose emptying my 35 gallon tanks in just about three minutes each chewing through all the regular stuff that they have in them with ease

Depending on where I am I'll either have the big 25g tote on the bumper hitch for a trip to the dump station with the little 11g in the back of the pickup or if up say at Algonquin where your out onto Hwy 60 I'll have both totes in the back of the truck were I will fill them up in there and then just dump right off the back of the tailgate using my regular 10' slinky. All in all a very slick operation and if you chose to mount a tank in the back of your truck is will easily pump up hill and like I said it's pretty fast when you use some decent size commercial water hose.

[GoinKZ]

All in all a very slick operation and if you chose to mount a tank in the back of your truck is will easily pump up hill and like I said it's pretty fast when you use some decent size commercial water hose.

Just to drift OT for a little bit....

When we used the PC's at JPCampers place, we pumped out Trailblazers rig through 75' of 3/4" hose up about an 8' rise.

It'll move the turds quite effectively.

[shum]

I also use 3/4" at home and it makes for easy pumping. The hose is a little pricey but Princess Auto usually has the 50-' lengths on sale for a decent price.

BTW you could also use the Flojet to pump the content of the tank off the truck to the dump station as well hooking it into the trucks bargman conector as I've heard other guys doing.